Virginia Regulatory Town Hall
Agency
Commission on the Virginia Alcohol Safety Action Program
 
Board
Commission on the Virginia Alcohol Safety Action Program
 
chapter
Ignition Interlock Regulations [24 VAC 35 ‑ 60]
Action Amendments to Virginia's Ignition Interlock Regulations
Stage Proposed
Comment Period Ended on 10/30/2020
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29 comments

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9/26/20  2:30 pm
Commenter: Anonymous

Hearing
 

We need to have a public hearing about this issue. Please schedule one.

 

CommentID: 86661
 

9/26/20  3:08 pm
Commenter: Anonymous

Request hearing
 

If you are making a regulatory change, the least you can do is hold a public hearing to inform the public and give the public a more direct voice. 

CommentID: 86663
 

9/26/20  3:20 pm
Commenter: Anonymous

Hearing
 

Please schedule a hearing 

CommentID: 86664
 

9/26/20  4:02 pm
Commenter: Anonymous

Request Hearing
 

l would like to request a hearing so that I can voice my opinion about the proposal.

CommentID: 86665
 

9/26/20  4:34 pm
Commenter: Anonymous

Request hearing
 

Request hearing 

CommentID: 86669
 

9/26/20  6:19 pm
Commenter: GPatri

Request Hearing - Va. Ignition Interlock Amendment(s)
 
  • Requesting a hearing be held regarding amendment(s) to Va Ignition Interlock regulation(s) 
CommentID: 86671
 

9/26/20  9:44 pm
Commenter: Anonymous

Request public hearing
 

I request a public hearing.

CommentID: 86675
 

9/27/20  8:45 am
Commenter: Anonymous

Request a public hearing
 

I request a public hearing on this proposed regulation change.

CommentID: 86679
 

9/27/20  8:59 pm
Commenter: Brian E Simoneau

Please hold a public hearing
 

Being required to use an Ignition Interlock Device is a substantial imposition placed upon a motorist and it is reasonable to hold a public hearing prior to making changes to ignition interlock regulations. I, therefore, respectfully request that a public hearing be held on this important matter.

CommentID: 86702
 

9/30/20  1:53 pm
Commenter: Brandon Ward

I request a public hearing on this issue
 

I would like this to get a public hearing. After all it is proven those acohol detection systems are often wrong. In other words they have a very high false positive rate

Brandon Ward

Disabled Whistleblower Veteran

 

CommentID: 87086
 

10/2/20  3:03 pm
Commenter: Jennifer Carroll

I would like a hearing
 

There needs to be a hearing on these devices. About 5 months (May 20th, 2019) into my Interlock device being installed, I failed a breath test DUE to a medication I took for a migraine that had sugar alcohol (mannitol) in it. The money alone spent on extending my VASAP due to this fail was outrageous. I contested it to the VASAP, in May when I failed, VASAP didn't notify me until June 20th, and didn't notify the courts until July 11th and then VASAP changed my hearing date twice- the initial July 19th and Aug 28th. Sept 17th was my court date, my case was dismissed BUT I was told I had to keep my device on until December 3rd To have passed my 6 month requirement. 

May 20th was my violation date, VASAP changed it to JULY 3rd and filed the noncompliance for July 11th. My initial compliance hearing was supposed to be July 19th.

Fee's-$50 reset for May plus Interlock charges for August, Sept, November, December (105.81 each for a total of 423.00) due to VASAP delaying my Noncompliance hearing. 

 

 

 

 

CommentID: 87319
 

10/2/20  3:13 pm
Commenter: Kari

I would like a public hearing.
 

I would like a public hearing held in a public area so that the public can attend and make comments. You should never hold public meetings on private property. That’s not fair!

CommentID: 87320
 

10/2/20  9:23 pm
Commenter: JoAnn Lankford

hold a hearing
 

I respectfully request that you hold a hearing that is important to me.  Thank you very much. 

JoAnn K Lankford 

Providence Forge,  VA

 

 

CommentID: 87337
 

10/3/20  1:35 pm
Commenter: Gloria Lankford

Please hold a public hearing
 

I request a hearing on this matter 

CommentID: 87346
 

10/4/20  4:21 am
Commenter: Robert Wigglesworth

I request a public hearing
 

Please hold a public hearing on this.

CommentID: 87347
 

10/5/20  7:00 am
Commenter: Verma Lankford

Please hold a public hearing
 

Please hold a hearing on these proposed changes to the legislation.

Thank you 

CommentID: 87348
 

10/6/20  5:14 pm
Commenter: Chandra Dickie

Request hearing
 

The entire ignition interlock program needs to be redesigned from the ground up. It’s absolutely ridiculous what these companies can claim & get by with & the state sits back & condones it all. 

CommentID: 87350
 

10/6/20  8:26 pm
Commenter: Mike Hicks

Request hearing
 

The whole program is ridiculous. Anything can make u fail these tests. One man was told the flowers lining his driveway was causing failed readings! So he cut them all down and SURPRISE! It didn’t help at all! It’s ridiculous!

CommentID: 87351
 

10/6/20  8:33 pm
Commenter: Rebecca Williams

Request hearing
 

What a nightmare we went through when my daughter had one of these devices! Her car would run in the driveway, on its own with no keys even in the ignition! It really messed her car up. The 2nd device was installed and her car never would start. It sat at the installation garage for 17 days waiting for an approval from the state to have it removed. She never even started or drove the car while it was installed but she still paid $200 & now they’re trying to sue her for an additional $200! How does

CommentID: 87352
 

10/8/20  11:50 am
Commenter: Veronica Hites

Request public hearing
 

Please have a public hearing on this issue

CommentID: 87353
 

10/9/20  2:22 pm
Commenter: Mary Anne B Dellinger

I request a Public Hearing
 

These issues should be discussed with public input.  Thank you!

CommentID: 87354
 

10/13/20  2:24 pm
Commenter: Joshua atkins

Dui/ interlock violations
 

Hello my name is Joshua Thomas Akin’s and I am a former customer of the ignition interlock I thought for three long years trying to prove my case and finally I have done just that. I went to all of my face up classes like I was instructed to do I paid all of my court fines and court cost face that cost etc. I went through for case managers and never met any of them continue to court cases after continue court cases and finally I got to prove my innocence by proving that there is extortion, yellow light fraud, and falsified readings through the ignition interlock! These ignition interlock’s are not Ethynol  specific! For example, when you are given the vase that book it’s pacifically tells you that deodorant hairspray cologne windshield wiper fluid gasoline etc. can all set this device off and all of my readings were extreme highs and drop to extreme lows within a five minute interval. I sat at the ignition interlock office for 3 1/2 hours one day and every time they Recalibrated my car I would get into my car and start my engine and it would violate me right in the parking lot right after they re-calibrated my car so I called the Norfolk police Department out and all three of them gave me PBT test and I passed with all zeros, however the ignition interlock stated that I was driving intoxicated I presented the videos, I also Presented my wrong for calibrations to the proper department’s. Nevertheless needless to say on my court date my entire case got dismissed because I pulled out that lovely book and proved that the ignition interlock’s or nothing but false positives all the way around.

CommentID: 87358
 

10/13/20  7:05 pm
Commenter: Lisa M. Bland

Request Public Hearing
 

I would like to request a public hearing on the proposed regulation changes.

CommentID: 87362
 

10/14/20  10:55 pm
Commenter: Talbert Dunn

I request a public hearing
 

I request a public hearing to have the VASAP program evaluated.

CommentID: 87370
 

10/15/20  11:12 am
Commenter: Donald James Edwards

Request for Public Hearing
 

I would like a Public Hearing. 

CommentID: 87373
 

10/20/20  3:55 pm
Commenter: michelle fonville

VASAP Regulation Changes PUblic Hearing
 

I think a Public Hearing should be scheduled for those who have been effected by VASAP regulations and how the changes may impact future infractions.

CommentID: 87376
 

10/26/20  1:24 pm
Commenter: Josh craig

I request a hearing
 

i request a hearing 

CommentID: 87382
 

10/28/20  11:20 am
Commenter: Cynthia Hites, Virginia Ignition Interlock Forum

I request a pubic hearing regarding the proposed legislative amendments to 24VAC35-60
 
I would like to request a public hearing. VASAP has slipped a monumental change to the IID program into the middle of this proposed legislation.  I've filed at least 4 petitions directly addressing the fact the interlock machines are not alcohol specific, as alcohol is defined by 24VAC35-60-20, the NHTSA BAIID Model Specifications, and the United States FDA. 
 
The machines are registering prolific numbers of false positives, which are actually just 'true positives' for alcohols other than ethanol.  When defined as ethanol, no IID can meet the standard of being alcohol specific, because electrochemical fuel cells are simply specific to the hydroxyl group, which so happens to be called the 'alcohols' group. 
 
Finally recognizing the limited functionality of the electrochemical fuel cell, VASAP is now trying to remove the standard of the IIDs being "alcohol specific", as each device is currently installed against the law. 
 
The NHTSA and IID companies have been deceptive by purporting these machines measure only alcohol (ethanol) and it's been a pseudoscientific scam decades in the making. I can cite 5 NHTSA documents that contain the falsehood of “ethanol specificity” as of late 2019. 
 
Interlock devices are punishing innocent people for mouthwash, prescription medicines, windshield washer fluid, perfume, hand sanitizer, sunscreen, but worst of all, and completely ignored, is the fact they're analyzing internal gases and detecting non-ethanol alcohols produced by the bodies of sober people. 
 
The 2013 NHTSA BAIID Model Specifications state "Acetone, an exhalable product of starvation, diabetic ketoacidocis, and a few other medical conditions, has a history of being cited as a source of false positive readings on breath test devices for alcohol". 
 
"Wisconsin noted alcohol specific sensors, such as fuel cells, will have no difficulty passing this test, since substances other than alcohol will have no effect. However, Wisconsin urged that units that are not specific to alcohol..."should be rigorously tested for the impact of interferences such as acetone and other volatile organic compounds." (2)
 
"The NHTSA agrees with the comments that the Model Specifications should ensure that BAIIDs are as accurate as possible and that it is not desirable to accept devices that generate high levels of false positives. The Agency is also persuaded by the comments that current technology has progressed sufficiently to expect that BAIIDs should be able to distinguish between alcohol and other specific substances... which are commonly found on breath.  BAIIDs that are unable to distinguish these substances from alcohol will not meet the Model Specifications." (2)
 
No interlock device in Virginia can meet the current Federal BAIID Model Specifications.
 
"Wisconsin also recommended 100% conformance at all levels. (p.2)  Smart Start asserted that the difference between 100% and 95% "does not matter". Some changes in accuracy and precision "potentially [add] costs to the BAIID and have no real world added benefit". (2)
 
I’ll assure you, Smart Start, it matters greatly. When it comes to accuracy, there’s a vast "real world" difference between 95% and 100%. 
 
Now what is of most grave concern lies buried deep within this amendment proposal and includes the following shocking admissions: 
 
"Section 24VAC35-60-70(F)(3) removes the reference to ignition interlocks being “alcohol specific” to prevent the public from assuming the device only detects ethanol to the exclusion of other types of alcohol.", and
 
"The proposed regulations no longer include the words “alcohol specific” since ignition interlocks detect various forms of alcohol in addition to drinking alcohol (ethanol) and the current regulations and the Code of Virginia define “alcohol” as being ethanol. This has caused confusion to the public."  
 
Yeah, I'll say it's caused confusion to the public...and to the judges, prosecutors, and the families of those falsely accused of drinking while using an interlock. 
 
It's egregious governmental gaslighting.
 
Removing the requirement for "alcohol specificity" completely changes the intent of the Virginia interlock regulations. These devices are supposed to only measure drinking alcohol. 
 
The truth is BAIIDs don't possess the capability to distinguish between alcoholic compounds. IIDs measure hydroxyl group compounds that can be produced easily within bodies of healthy sober people. Metabolic byproducts from common processes such as ketosis, ketoacidocis, and biomarkers for disease are being misconstrued as liquor. 
 
The IID requires execution of the vital capacity maneuver, and my hypothesis is that over time in a seated position, with the stomach nestled between the lungs, the proximity of the permeable membranes of both organs allows for an exchange of VOCs (volatile organic compounds) that can exponentially raise the level of hydroxyl group compounds detectable on sober breath.
 
I have been studying VOCs on the expired breath of healthy individuals for over three years now, and plan to attend the virtual Breath Biopsy conference being held next month at Cambridge.
 
My father in law is, coincidentally, the "father of environmental mass spectrometry" and is a 40 year tenured professor of Chemistry at Indiana University.  He has a Ph.D. in analytical chemistry from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1968), and was on the staff and faculty of MIT’s Chemical Engineering Department until 1979, when he became a professor of chemistry at Indiana University. He is a Fellow of the American Chemical Society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the Society for Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry.
 
He explained to me that only a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer can distinguish ethanol from other alcohols. I also know the cost of a GCMS is six figures because he told me he uses a coupon for them, and they're actually made by Hewlett Packard, which was surprising. 
 
But an ignition interlock device is an extremely cheap instrument and utilizes an electrochemical fuel cell, which he also advised is very unsophisticated.
 
The fuel cell is actually great at what it does, and although it has a terrible reputation for generating 'false positives', that's not altogether true...they're just 'true positives' for alcohols other than ethanol.
 
Fuel cells are extremely accurate at detecting compounds in the hydroxyl group. If any one of dozens of alcoholic compounds is present in breath or in ambient air, the IID, at the right vapor pressure, is gonna detect it and the device then counts the combined electrons. This electron flow is then simply incorrectly labeled as a BrAC reading. 
 
The interlock datalog readings are just electricity -- it's not quantifying any particular substance. It can't, that's just not within the realm of capability of the fuel cell. So you can't just declare all readings from an interlock as being ethanol, because that's not how an electrochemical fuel cell works.
 
The problem is NOT the fuel cell, it's just that all its results are being mistakenly labeled "ethanol".
 
"The purpose of the BAIID is not to accurately measure...the BAC of a driver, but to prevent the person with a high BAC from operating a motor vehicle." (1)
 
I've studied IID programs nationwide, and the way Virginia is going about it is totally unethical. Interlock is just meant to be a physical gate, and the readings were never intended to be criminalized, as they have been in Virginia. 
 
 
I have been completely alcohol free since May 2016, and in July 2016 my IID began stranding me, sober, and rendering me helpless and vulnerable. 
 
Once there was a man right outside of my car at Fort Monroe beach, and I couldn't leave. It was sooo scary, and traumatic for me personally I couldn't go back to that parking lot for a couple years.  
 
The NHTSA states "The acceptability of an interlock program may be damaged if too many legitimate users with legal BACs are prevented from driving. Similarly, there are certain climatic or personal safety occasions when lockout of a zero BrAC driver would be unacceptable. Therefore, this may be of concern to the certifying authority." (1)
 
It happened to me personally on nine different days. Nine separate days of my sober life, while I was an only child caring for my mother who was dying of congestive heart failure, an infected hip replacement, two heart attacks and a stroke. My memories of her last months include speaking with Chris Morris multiple times from the hospital as he kept avoiding a meeting to review my data. These calls are published on Virginia Ignition Interlock Forum.
 
“Accordingly...the performance requirements have been increased in the revised model specifications at the 0.000 level by providing that the vehicle must not be prevented from starting even once during 20 trials." (2)
 
I called the Hampton Police to the scene immediately each time these false high BrAC readings occurred, and have 7 different police eyewitness reports, and videos, in addition to their PBT tests all reading zero, simultaneous to the IIDs locking me out.  
 
What's so utterly bizarre is that 7 of my 9 lockout events occurred after I‘d already started the car at ZERO BrAC and only upon ROLLING RETEST was I prompted, via text, to pull over.
 
All of my datalog readings concretely disprove ethanol by their scientifically impossible absorption rates, and subsequent dissipation rates, which are completely inconsistent with that of human C2H60 metabolization. 
 
No one deserves to go through this.  There are so many things wrong with this program, we need to have a hearing to be able to have a dialog. 
 
The issue most paramount now is that this legislative proposal removes the standard of the interlock devices being specific to alcohol. 
 
"For example, Road Safety Technologies stated "it is critical that the interlock device be as accurate as the technology can allow" (p.1) Similarly, LifeSafer asserted "As jurisdictions have embraced and expanded their use of BAIID technology, they have demanded alcohol-specific sensor technology. [Interlocks that] that are not alcohol-specific...tarnish the reputation of the industry...,[which] undermines interlock efficacy and creates lasting misperceptions" (p.4,5). AAMVA expressed its belief that "non-specific alcohol devices are prone to false positives and unwarranted lockouts, leading to lower acceptance rates amongst drivers" (2)
 
The only reason the ignition interlock was EVER considered to be implemented was because it was touted falsely as alcohol specific.
 
The entire VASAP ignition interlock system is unethical, and it's disproportionately affecting the poorest among us, who cannot afford adequate council in these matters. For ASAP to restart someone based on IID readings, without benefit of a show cause hearing, is total denial of due process, as ASAP is precluded from considering ANY evidence other than the admittedly flawed IID readings.  
 
I beseech you to hold a public hearing, I have a host of exhibits to submit, and 2 minutes every 3 months isn't enough time to begin to redress the program flaws, inept procedures, and thoroughly irresponsible and misleading pseudoscience being allowed by this Agency. 
 
VASAP cannot change 24VAC35-60-70, F, 3 in this manner without dissolving the entire intent of the statute. I implore you to study the entire body of this proposal, not just the Agency's summary, as it glaringly excludes this critical amendment. 
 
Please hold a public hearing during which I can finally present hard data and scientific evidence, so innocent and compliant Virginians may no longer be persecuted by this scientifically irresponsible and unconstitutionally abysmal witch hunt.
 
Most Sincerely and Humbly,
Cynthia Hites
Virginia Ignition Interlock Forum
 
1) Federal BAIID Model Specifications, published February 2006
2) Federal BAIID Model Specifications, published May 2013
CommentID: 87398
 

10/29/20  12:43 am
Commenter: David Hites

I request a public hearing on the proposed regulation changes
 

I am requesting a public hearing on these proposed regulation changes.  A hearing is required per Va Code 2.2-4007.01 “If the agency receives requests for a public hearing from at least 25 persons.”  More than 25 people have requested a public hearing.

My name is Dave Hites.  I have had the displeasure of dealing with the Virginia Alcohol Safety Action Program (VASAP) for more than 3 years.  During that time, my wife and I have collectively submitted more than ten petitions for regulation rule changes to the Commission on VASAP at each and every quarterly meeting since 2018.  

One petition requested lowering the breath sample requirement from 1.5 liters to one liter for all clients to eliminate the administrative burden on the client and ASAPs of having to medically qualify clients for the reduction.  This would have created fewer false positives and would have allowed wider use of the interlock by asthmatics, in turn generating more revenue for the program.  The Commissioners said no.

Another was for enforcement of the timely notification to the interlock client that an interlock violation is being reported as non-compliant.  Va Admin Code 24VAC35-30-150 “non-compliance reporting” gives the agency 5 days to notify the client and the court of an interlock violation, yet there is no recourse for the client or penalty to the case manager/ASAP for failing to notify the client and the court within that time.  Case managers have been abusing this statute of limitations by delaying notification of a violation by months, therefore costing the client more money for monthly calibration and reset fees until their case is heard.  The proposed change was to nullify the violation if it was not reported within the time period set by law.  The Commissioners said no.

One petition simply requested the law be changed so that case managers could not personally extend a client’s interlock time requirement without the benefit of a court hearing.  The reason for the petition was that clients are not being afforded due process by having a non-compliance hearing for a violation accusation.  The Commissioners decided at a recent meeting that it was okay for case managers to do that.  It gets better.  In the petition “agency decision summary”, which is supposed to list the REASON the petition was denied, the reason given was “The Commission on VASAP considered this petition at its December 13, 2019 quarterly meeting and decided to take no action on the petitioner's request.”  They couldn’t even give a legal reason to deny the petition, so they just said no.

This next one is one of my favorites.  The petition asked that the word “warn” be included in VA Admin Code 24VAC35-60-70 F,6 which addresses ignition interlock test results.  The statute currently states "The results of the test shall be noted through the use of green, yellow, and red signals or similar pass/fail indicators.”  The petition request was to change the verbiage to "The results of the test shall be noted through the use of green, yellow, and red signals, or similar pass/warn/fail indicators.”  The Commission staff’s answer to this petition was “Virginia regulations do not require that ignition interlocks have a yellow warning light.  A similar pass/fail indicator is sufficient, and all ignition interlock companies operating in Virginia are in compliance.”

The statute as it is written requires a yellow light. The Commission staff must have missed that requirement when they gave their decision to deny the petition.  LifeSafer and Smart Start claim to have a yellow light on their devices that are certified for use in Virginia.  In essence, the Commission staff now says they don’t have to use it, even though the law requires it.  The ASAP case managers are using the absence of a warning light to defraud clients who think they are in compliance.

I could go on but what’s the point?  The Commission has denied all of our petitions and will likely continue to do so, whether a suggestion is favorable or not.  The Commission staff has refused to correspond with either of us, stating that we have no business with VASAP and that further communication from us will be ignored unless through the service of legal papers or FOIA request.  The staff has afforded the petitioner only two minutes to speak to the Commissioners about each petition, which is not nearly enough time.  They do not want to hear what we have to say.  They will admit no wrongdoing, even when an interlock company (Alcolock) decides to end their longstanding relationship with the state two days after a petition accusing the company of fraud is filed.

I was appointed unanimously in 2017 by the Hampton City Council to the Peninsula ASAP policy board.  Then I got a notice from Peninsula ASAP that I was no longer allowed on their property because I harassed their clients and employees and that the director feared for the safety of her employees.  My appointment was then rescinded due to my inability to attend the public meetings being held on private property, not because of the false harassment accusations levied against me and my wife.  

The regulations for this agency as written have no teeth.  There’s no incentive (or penalty) to the state agency if they do not follow their own laws.

The most glaring and disturbing proposed change to these regulations removes the requirement for interlock devices to be “alcohol specific”.  The Commission staff didn’t even list this change in their agency background document “brief summary”.  The Commission, when faced with an NHTSA admission that interlocks indeed are not ethanol specific, finally conceded that electrochemical fuel cells are NOT alcohol specific as currently required by law.  In order to save the statute and continue to allow ignition interlock companies to operate in the state, the law must be changed to remove the alcohol specific requirement.  The only alternative is to ban the electrochemical fuel cell, which would eliminate interlock use in Virginia.  The Commission staff states the reason for the change is “The proposed regulations no longer include the words “alcohol specific” since ignition interlocks detect various forms of alcohol in addition to drinking alcohol (ethanol) and the current regulations and the Code of Virginia define “alcohol” as being ethanol. This has caused confusion to the public.”

This has caused confusion to the public?  This has caused confusion to EVERYONE.  Legislators and judges have been mislead for YEARS that interlocks only measure one thing … alcohol (ethanol as defined by 24VAC35-60-20).  The result is that non-ethanol readings have been misinterpreted as a true positive for liquor when the alcohol elimination rate of the test results in most cases makes this an impossibility.  Changing the law to eliminate the requirement for interlock devices to be alcohol specific does not eliminate confusion to the public.  Altering the Virginia Code to imply the devices measure ONLY ethanol perpetuates the deception that interlock devices solely measure drinking alcohol.

If VASAP is successful in changing the regulation to eliminate the words “alcohol specific”, then interlock companies cannot be allowed to advertise their devices as alcohol-specific because that would be deceptive to the public and give them the impression that interlocks only detect one alcohol … ethanol.  If an interlock company submitted a proposal including the claim that their devices are alcohol specific, they should be decertified for making false or misleading statements to the Commission in their proposal in response to the agency’s request for proposals, for which the new contract period began July 1, 2020.

Please hold a public hearing regarding these proposed amendments so the Commissioners can hear from me and my wife as to our experience with the evasive actions and lack of accountability the Commission staff has exercised over the entire IID program.  I am requesting that the VASAP Commission consider me and my wife as stakeholders in this agency as VASAP client advocates.  Thank you for your consideration.

CommentID: 87404