This latest proposed regulation highlights an ongoing problem with the Department of ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL....the expansion into law enforcement areas that have nothing to do with the mission of the dept, which is to "CONTROL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES". Currently, there is no statewide definition of unlawfully "noisy", yet ABC seeks to create one for just one industry. Localities already have the power to create noise control ordinances that reflect the values and choices of those locales. What is acceptable to residents of Highland County is probably different from what residents and business owners want at the Virginia Beach oceanfront or in downtown Richmond. For the state to impose its viewpoint on all parts of the Commonwealth is simply ridiculous. ABC needs to get back to the basics of regulating the flow of alcohol in Virginia. That is the sole legitimate purpose of the department, and if licensees keep having to fight the effort to gain more power, it might be time to consider eliminating this unnecessary layer of government.  

please stick to monitoring alcohol sales and leave local jurisdictions to police noise issues.

Personally I think this all has gotten out of hand.  Any bar you go to there is going to be noise no matter what- its why people go out- to have fun.  We are spending money on alchol- which by the way is not cheap- and we expect to have a good time- listen to loud music and be able to have fun.  ABC has gotten reducioulous- in the last 2 weeks- they have come into the bars that I frequent and constantly harrass people- even the police are getting involved.  When people leave the bar they may be drunk and loud and they cannot help themselves. As long as they arent driving and get home safe they need to be left alone.  ABC needs to stick to what it is here for- to control alcoholic beverages- leave everything else alone so people can have fun everyonce and awhile.  I would really hate to see Virginia Beach go down the drain because of this- and I fear thats where its going. I know several people that no longer enjoy going out because of the harrassment issue.  Please just leave it alone.

Uhm, lets try to keep you government types at least a little bit out of our lives? Thanks, i mean really, what are you going to do? Walk into a someplace like the Peppermint Beach club and say the music's too loud? Duh, it's a friggin venue! Howsabout you leave the law enforcement to uhm, officers of the law? Commonly referred to as cops, not politicians.

Plain and simple, you can't put restritcitions on term "noisy".  If the courts or the ABC board try, they will always face claims that they are violating people's first amendment rights.  The ABC board needs to leave this up to the local police departments.  It has always been the job of the ABC to legalize, regulate and control the drinking and use of alcohol, not to restrict the noise levels of local bars.  If there is a noise problem let it be the discretion of the establishment or of the police officers who sit right out front all night long.  It appears as though the local bars in the area do not fit the city officals new visions of the  city, and because of this, they are looking for any and every reason to close down the bars.  The case that is the subject  of this discussion shows that the ABC board is simply trying to bog the judicial system instead of admitting defeat.  How much longer is this going to go on?

First, it has been proven many times that the term "noisy" is vague and unconstitutional.  The most recent Virginia case being Norfolk 302, LLCt/a, Have A Nice Day Cafe, et al. v. Esther H. Vassar, Chari, Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, et al.  Civil Action No. 2:07cv203.  In this case, the court held that Virginia's Alcoholic Beverage Control Act is "to legalize, regulate and control...drinking and use of alcohol." Citing Miller v. Commonwealth, 172 Va. 639, 2 S.E.2d 343. 

The court also holds that "noisy...conduct" is vague and that the ABC Board's argument is unpersuasive in saying that the Virginia Court of Appeals has adopted a narrowing construction that remedies any constitutional infirmity citing Supermarket Express, L.L.C. v. Com., Dept. of Alcoholic Beverage Control, 2005 WL 645157, at *3 n. 1. 

The court ruled that the Court of Appeals's definition of "noisy" is also deficient because it does not provide reasonable standards for enforcement by ABC agents and courts.  The individuals charges with enforcing section 4.1-225(1)(h) have no greater ability to recognize a violation of the statute than those persons operating establishments subject to its prohicition.  The General Assembly failed to tie the word "noisy" to any "explicit standard for enforcement, "U.S. Labor Party v. Pomerleau, 557 F.2d 410, 412 (4th Cir. 1977), and the Supermarket's holding does not fix the problem. 

Further, it was ruled that thee judicial gloss on the term "noisy" falls short of saving it from a facial attack.  Though "loud confuse, or senseless shouting or outcry, or "din or uproar of persons," is admittedly tighter language than "nosiy...conduct," the judicial constructions are still doubly vague.

Let the police and local establishments decide on what a proper noise level is, not the ABC.  If the noise gets out of hand, let the police and bars kick the people out.  Hey they can even arrest them for noise polution if they feel fit.

The title says it all.

Our beach and out nightlife is what makes Virginia Beach a travel destination. A vacation is supposed to be enjoyable and relaxing. People don't come here to get harassed. It is getting a bit out of control when ABC is thinking about monitoring the noise at the beach.  We need to try to keep the vacationers that still want to come to Virginia Beach. More rules and regulations are only going to force people to vacation somewhere more pleasurable.                 

My answer to this question is sipmly no. I feel as though in many cases personal vendetta is the real issue.  Having managed and worked at a number of Oceanfront bars and restaurants in my time, I feel as though noise is in no way a top priority issue for the ABC.  People in the 21-26 year old demographic enjoy loud music and should not be punnised for that. If ABC would focus on the owners maintaining a clean and safe enviroment in the bars at the beach I strongly believe that a great deal of the "Problem" would be solved. ABC regulation requires that food be sold up one hour before an establishment closes...... Good luck grabbing a bite at 9 pm. If the laws are not being enforced now then why should ABC be given more authority to enforce anything else. I feel that there is a great deal of corruption within the F&B industry, and it all starts with the city council,and the ABC. The Kids are Going to party regardless..... It is up to you to give them a safe and clean enviroment to do so. Focus on the task at hand before you put more on your plate.

Give me a break!  This is just another way to waste more of our tax payers money. we have jets flying over the same spot all the time and that noise is ten times louder then any club.. City pays for outside Bands to play..Now i like the jet noise i think it it the sound of freedom, but i think this is just because they are mad because the lost a big case months back.... 

"Our beach and out nightlife is what makes Virginia Beach a travel destination. A vacation is supposed to be enjoyable and relaxing. People don't come here to get harassed. It is getting a bit out of control when ABC is thinking about monitoring the noise at the beach.  We need to try to keep the vacationers that still want to come to Virginia Beach. More rules and regulations are only going to force people to vacation somewhere more pleasurable".  
.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS! Trying to outlaw noise or "monitor" noise in areas where they sell alcohol does not even make sense! What is this world coming to? Can anyone go out and have a good time anymore? What do you want us to do?  Drink in a library? Come on now. GET REAL. There are more important and surreal problems going on then to even be THINKING about this outrageous subject. Do people complain about the noise in BARS? Probably not because BARS/CLUBS arent attached to peoples houses! Who thought of this? Really? My guess is someone that does not even go out and is not a part of the "bar/club" scene. If they did, they would understand that EVERYONE ENJOYS MUSIC and the LOUDNESS of going out DOES NOT EVEN CROSS OUR MINDS!!!!!!! GET IT TOGETHER PEOPLE! STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ON MINDLESS SUBJECTS OF INSANITY. Here's an idea: Take a poll in bars and clubs. Ask the people who are entitled to having an opinion on this JOKE of an issue.

I agree with the previous post about the city having bands play... does this mean they are going to do away with Beach Street at the Oceanfront... that is there to provide entertainment for the tourists who seek a "family environment"? How it stands now is all businesses playing loud music have to have their doors closed after 10 pm. Yet Beach Street performers play until 11. And they are being employed by the city. So is ABC going to take the city's performers, who have nothing to do with anything alcohol related, and tell them to pack up because their trumpet playing or doo wop music is too loud? ABC barely does its job as it is, all they do is try to fault businesses, but without those businesses they would be out of a job! Try targeting individuals who are supposed to be responsible for their own actions instead of making the businesses responsible for them.

This is just silly. They need to just focus on alcoholic beverage control, and stop trying to be the entire bar/night club regulating authority. Since when is noise a concern of theirs? How about they just worry about what they were formed to, which is controlling alcoholic beverages. How much of my tax dollars would they want to waste on this? Couldn't all that time and money be better spent on things that matter more to the community?

Certain establishments in the beach community were meant to blast noise out to the public. Anyone who's traveled outside of Hampton Roads will know this - it's in every beach community. There will be dive bars, there will be clubs... it's a part of the beach culture. As are the surfers, as are the skaters, the ocean and the sunshine. The point: Taking away the nostalgia, the originality, the elements of what comprises a REAL BEACH SETTING will disappoint the expectations of the tourist. They come to see these things; they come to experience an original beach environment. Enforcing a curfew for families with minors will probably be a better idea. Keeping the beach malls open until ten will keep the visiting families busy and keep the money flowing. These families are in bed by that time, anyways. Unless they're walking kids around after midnight, it's a morality issue then - for the families. Allowing the bars and clubs to pound music into our eardrums until two AM should be alright... since VA Beach is starting to really suck anyways with all of these rules.

I'm pretty sure ABC means Alcoholic Beverage Control not noise pollution control.  Stick with what you know, it is a handful already.  Next thing you know the DMV will think it should be involved in local road contruction.

The latest attempt by the ABC to control the noise from establishments serving alcholic beverages is down right wrong. Nowhere in their catchy name "ABC" does NOISE come in. They need to stick to what they already do. Which they don't do all that well since we still have a problem with minors drinking not listening to really loud music in the bar parking lot! If the assembly allows this, we have taken one step closer to becoming the old Soviet Union! Which as a U.S. Marine Combat Veteran, Frankly 's me off. Our men and women fight everyday so that Americans have the freedoms we do. We have the freedom to Choose! I Choose to go to the bar and listen to the music! If I didn't I would go somewhere else! How about you ABC people that don't like the loud music just pack you lego's and move on over to China or Iran where you maybe can get a really good job controlling 100% of people's lives............unlike you in the ABC I am Semper Fidelis! Thats right get a dictionary out smart ones! 

How is it that NOISE ceases to be a public safety and health concern when it is offered by a city sponsored or permitted event. Is it somehow sanitized when a government entity receives part of the proceeds? Legislators please look past the obvious, there is more here than you’re being told.

 This is simply an attempt by a state agency to obtain yet another legislative tool to bully business owners with. The localities already have specific, enforceable noise regulations in place, according to each localities standards. Also, the localities prevent noise in residential areas through zoning regulations and the resturant licensing and reviewing processes. There is already waaay too much power in the hands of ABC. Next time you purchase a drink, instead of complaining about cost, think of how much less expensive it would be if business owners weren't forced to jump through hoops trying to comply with all of ABC's regulations. I read through the sections on this site associated with the responsibilities, goals and regulations of ABC and at no point did they state that ABC was responsible for noise regulations. In fact, I think there should be laws on the books that specifically limit the boundaries of ABC authority, so that ABC won't be tempted to needlessly waste taxpayer's money attempting to increase their authority. ABC needs to butt out and focus on controlling thier assigned territory, and stop trying to increase their authority. I quote Henry David Thoreau: "Less government is better government!"

I’ve read the Notice of Intended Regulatory Action (NOIRA) Agency Background Document and disagree with ABC thinking it has the right to control noise emulated from establishments for the safety of near by citizens. The need of this document states:

 “Establishments licensed for the sale of alcoholic beverages often generate a great deal of noise, from the combined voices of patrons to amplified musical entertainment. This sound can impact nearby residences or businesses, and have a damaging effect on the quality of life and the health of persons subjected to excessive sound levels. The agency has determined that sound levels emanating from licensed businesses must be controlled to protect the peace and tranquility of surrounding neighborhoods, and the health of citizens. Issues which need to be addressed as the regulation is developed include acceptable sound levels at various types of affected properties, methods of measurement, and possible exemptions for emergency or unavoidable temporary sound levels.”  

I live down the street from an establishment which has live bands at least four nights a week. I am not affected nor do I hear anything in my home or outside from the establishment. I’ve yet to visit an establishment on the peninsula or in VA beach where when standing outside one would be “negatively” impacted by noise levels emulating from an establishment. You hear music as you come to the front door of the establishment but you don’t hear it down the street like your standing in front of a speaker. This is a ridiculous proposal; I would like to know how they plan on enforcing this. Are we to use our over taxed police officers as noise cops now too? Or will ABC want funding for a task team that will visit establishments with a decimal reader to make sure noise levels are at a safe level for near by residences. Jets that fly over the area create more noise in one day than bars and restaurants. Please throw this out ABC needs to stick with alcohol control and sound control alone.

 Bars and nightclubs are supposed to be what they are, a place to cut loose and enjoy the nightlife. I pay the Government taxes for my right to freedom. It is not a matter of "if" , the Government IS reaching WAY too far this time. Control alchohol, that is your job. To monitor the atmosphere and what you call noise, we call music, by the way, of a nightclub or bar is against the very fabric of  what a  FREE country is!  Government keeps syphoning our rights slowly away. My Advice to the Government, stop while you are ahead. How many of our rights do you THINK you steel from us, take away, or "Monitor"? Ask yourselves this, when was the last Civil War? Civil Movement? Civil Uprising? Keep pushing us and that is exactly what you WILL get. I'm all for Revolution, and many many many people are as well. Keep steeling our rights and you WILL be sorry. It's been a while since the last revolution against the oppressing Goverment if you ask me. Let this bill go through, and you are asking for one. This country is NOT YOURS. IT IS OURS. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WAS BUILT BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. Not by a government, or for a government. I DO speak on behalf of this Generation. My Name Is Heath Jason Starkey.

.It is an option as to whether or not a person goes out, and to which establishment one goes. If the atmospher, entertainment or sound level does not suit you there are hundreds of other places for you to go. It is not right or constutional for the government to monitor and regulate and part of how an establishment chooses to entertain thier patrons. Just because you can do something does'nt make it right or justied. I would like to know exactly who is in favor of this regulation and what establishments they a frequenting, and further more WHY. Its like trying to get a littlle boy in the girl scouts, just go some where else. I know for fact that there are plenty of quite places for all of you to go. Stop trying to protect us and let us decide whether or not its to loud, hey you can always leave. If enough people did then the owner would get the hint that its to loud, no one is making you stay, this is america the FREE COUNTRY!!! So butt out and stay at home!    

IGNORANT!  If you choose to make this a bill it singles out only one form of business that it will pertain to in the wee hours of the evening.  What about amusement parks, airports, military bases big rigs, factories,  malls, busy roadways.  To whom it may concern... If you live in a area where these businesses run, one of two things happened, you moved there after the business was already established and therein gave poor judgement into your place of residence, if this bothers you.  Or second, the business went through a vigorous zoning process to get to where they are and you either didn't feel it neccessary to vote or were to damb lazy to stop the business from entering.  OFF. in those cases.  Why should these business owners suffer because of the ignorance of so few others.   

Also if ABC chooses to monitor sound it must be done in all aspects for all businesses during certain times, not just for those serving alcohol.  Airports and their planes, parks and their rides, and patrons.  Highways and their automobiles underway.  If not, this is calleds segregations... the blacks didn't like it, and neither do I!

Finally, You are slowly and aggresively squeezing the life out of the very businesses that gives you a damb job, understand as you choke the life out of these places you quickly become more useless then you already are.   Why doesn't your less then medicore run org. try to better the simple task you have now rather then add yet another pointless uneeded law for you all to shantily endorse and use at your own power grubbing will, when it suits you.  Take your mouths of the nipple of society and start helping rather then sucking it dry.

I am so opposed to this bill. They have already taken smoking away from us now they are trying to mess with the noise levels. The neighbors of bars have to sign off on them for them to be able to serve I believe. So why are you going around that agreement and make things harder for us to release our tensions. When I was a younger man I had gotten in to some trouble with the law because they took all the legal things for kids to do away.  So what do you think will happen when you guys make it not enjoyable to go out anymore.

Its been 9 years since i moved out of my moms house! probably 13 years since she told me how loud to play my music! this is seriouusly in the way. Virginia ABC tighten up!

This is another example of over regulating our lives. We live in a state that is backwards in thinking. The ABC is supposed to regulate alcohol sales, distribution and consumption. Well I have dealt with many different agents and most are in the business of common sense. Some however are rogue in what they want or how they interpret their statutes and regulations. This shows that not all people in the agency are on the same page and there is no guideline for what is to be tolerated from one part of the state to another. The statutes and regulations are vague at best and are applied as an agent sees fit not the agency. There comes a time when all businesses or agencies need to be reexamined and brought up to the current times. Most of their regulations date back to the abolishment of prohibition. Well that is more than 7 to 8 generations ago. Well times have changed and so has society. What was the norm back then is not the norm today. The government is supposed to be by the people and for the people, well someone forgot to tell the ABC to join the new century. One example of not adapting with the times is the 45% 55% regulation. It states that an establishment has to sell 45% food to 55% liqour. Beer and wine are not counted in the liqour. The reasoning for this is that when prohibition was abolished the federal government asked the states what their concerns were and Va. was worried how liquor mainly moonshine affected people so they set up the regulation so that establishments had to feed people so that it would not cause them to be drunk and act up. Well it is now known that 1.5 oz of liqour is equal to 12oz of beer is equal to 5.5oz of wine, yet liquor is suppose to cause people to get more drunk and rowdy than beer or wine according to the regulation. Well science has shown this to be untrue  yet we still have this  regulation on the books.  So as you can see that is one example of  not keeping up with the times. We could break down the regulation book of the ABC and find more examples and would probably have to overhaul the agency, yet now with the organization not being on the same page in their application of the laws they now want to regulate the noise. Talk about taking a bite of something you can't chew. The agency needs to fix themselves before they take on something else. This is just another way to be able to keep certain establishments from functioning. They want to control the type of music that we play, the type or crowd that we draw and the type of shows that we have. That is what this is all about. It is a conspiracy between the cities and ABC to be able to shut down whatever establishments they deem unworthy. This is a violation of our right to free speech as well as civil rights violations. People want to go out and have a good time and listen to music, that is what draws people to establishments if they don't like it then they will go elsewhere, let them choose. This regulation is a form of censorship, which will be challenged in court. Don't waste your time and our tax money on this unnecessary regulation. You need to fix the ills of the agency so that it is still a viable part of the government.

Seriously - off

You dont need to be in the noice policing business you old farts

I think its ridiculous that a company that was created to control alcohol and make sure people were using there liqour licenses right is trying to play "GOD". Come on now... Clubs and bars and pubs and etc were made so that people 21 and up could go out and have fun. So we can be adults in a place where its safe and controlled. Now your telling me they want to put a noise curfew or control the noise some how? WTF? come on give me a break. I am a mother of 2 and when I do get to go out I want to enjoy it, not hae to whisper across the bar and sit there with my hands on my lap like a un or something. I am an adult and deserve to have a good time. Alcohol control should stick to what they are there for CONTROLLING THE BOOZE!!!!

People are gonna make nosie regradless of where they are, so why is it such a big deal.  quit whinning about it.  its only till 2am.   and ABC!!!   this is NOT your domain, Stick to what you do,  WHYYYYY do u need to control noise.  your not NC- Noise control  your ABC

this is just nuts.  what happend to a free country. 

ABC should stick to what they know ...alcoholic beverages, not noise control!!! Are they going to take on OCEANA next? Seriously people they are going too far!!! We need to stop this before we next we know we are standing in front of the Kremlin!!!

It's understandable that ABC will come into college towns, and even further, into the bars of those college towns.  It's a well-known fact that college students drink underage and sometimes at bars.  It was annoying at the time, being a college student who liked her younger friends to come to bars with her, but that was their job, so it was understandable.  But that's not the point.  I have provided the "vision" and the "mission" from the ABC website: 

"Vision
To enhance the quality of life for Virginia's citizens by balancing service, revenue and control in the distribution, sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages. 

Mission

Nowhere does it say anything about busting parties for noise.  That is for the city police to handle... NOT the ABC.  I don't go to loud parties, so it's not affecting me, but it's a matter of each government organization serving its purpose and ITS purpose alone.  If you have too many people enforcing one law who is going to make sure the underaged kids are not at bars and the ABC stores aren't serving minors?

Noise is the now the issue at hand for the ABC board. WOW. Let us get real people. Virginia for the most part is one of the most visited states in the country. The quality of life is also above normal. We have mountains,beaches and metropolis'. Yet we also have deep rooted hypocrits who run certain organizations (ABC) being one. The board can't even get all agents or supervisors on the same page when it comes to interpreting their very vague regulations, now they want to add noise control(which has nothing to do with alcohol)to the list of regulations that will be interpreted differently by all the agents. Every locality has a different noise ordinance, so how does ABC plan on making the proper adjustments to each locality. This is a classic example of Napoleons Complex. An agency that should be overhauled and probably could be phased out because lack of effectiveness. There are no measurable standards in the agency when it comes time for them to interpret vague and broad reaching regulations, now they want to control something as broad as noise ordinances.The ABC has this chip on there shoulder that they can and will intimidate and strong arm so that businesses will abide by their power. When challenged and they have lost some challenges, they come back with a vengeance of person who has been pushed around and now has power and wields it unnecessarily and without regard for the very people they are to serve. People want to go out and have a good time with loud music and dancing even provcatively. One agents interpretation of noisy and lewd regulation is if his 12 year old daughter would be offended.(It is in a deposition) Well the age for alcohol is 21 not 12 so why should that be the interpretation. They need to be held accountable for their actions, Please leave noise out of it

As a concerned citizen, who does not frequent "noisy, loud" bars or clubs, I oppose this regulation as being outside the bounds of the intent of the ABC authority and infringing on the rights of business persons to effectively conduct their business.  Each business establishment has the right and obligation to manage their business within the acceptable practices and laws of the locality. Police have jurisdiction to regulate this and most assuredly do in all the localities in which I have resided.  It is much more prudent to have the ABC Board and personnel monitor underage drinking and owner compliance with laws and let other people and  agencies do their job.  Is this a way for a state agency to justify "additional personnel"?  

The noise level you propose is interesting since the chart (from the Federal OSHA regulations) below shows the occupational noise level standard at which hearing protection is required to protect employees in the workplace (more than 90 dBa for 8 hrs being the minimum) :

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10625

1926.52(d)(1)

In all cases where the sound levels exceed the values shown herein, a continuing, effective hearing conservation program shall be administered.

 
    TABLE D-2 - PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES
__________________________________________________
                                   |
                                   | Sound level
      Duration per day,hours       |  dBA slow
                                   |  response
___________________________________|______________
                                   |
8..................................|          90
6..................................|          92
4..................................|          95
3..................................|          97
2..................................|         100
1 1/2..............................|         102
1..................................|         105
1/2................................|         110
1/4 or less........................|         115
___________________________________|______________

Do you propose to have a tighter standard for  a recreational choice?  You need "not go here" on this piece of regulation - you would be far "righter" to turn it over to VOSH for protection of employees working in the establishment.  Of course, to be in compliance, the owner could provide "ear plugs" which might make their employees a lot happier if they didn't have to listen to the customer as much. 

This is over regulation at its worst.