This is a great idea that will allow more qualified veterinarians to emerge from their 4-year program.

As a veterinary student, having the opportunity to participate in hands on training as through all four years of veterinary school would allow me to have better clinical skills as a practitioner at the time of graduation.  I believe learning under the supervision of a veterinarian in private practice during breaks in school is a safer and more efficient way to develop strong clinical skills than trying to cram them all in to 4th year clinics and learning on your own on patients after graduation.  I support this legislation as a student as I know the current law has impaired me from developing these clinical skills.  

As a veterinary student, I have gained vast amounts of knowledge and technical skills from working under the supervision of private practice veterinarians. The veterinary field is very different from other areas of study in that there are so many species to learn not only health, but handling, and technical skills.  It is vital to our growth and proficiency as veterinarians to have these out of class opportunities at private practices. 

Students need more experiences and veterenarians are the best suited for determining whether a student is ready.

Hands on experience is vital to learning the clinical skills we need to be good veterinarians. Many students leave Virginia during summer breaks due to better opportunities in other states that allow significantly more hands on interactions. Passage of this will not only improve our skills but can also improve the local economies throughout Virginia through the hiring of veterinary students. 

Any additional experience that knowledgeable students can get while under the supervision of a mentor veterinarian allows us to hone our skills and become an overall better veterinarian upon graduation. 

Veterinarians have the best interest of their patients and clients in mind and can therefore be trusted to give students the opportunity to practice hands on techniques only when appropriate. As veterinary students, we have limited access to hands on experience in the first few years of the curriculum. Students try to spend their summers seeing real cases and acquiring more skills in diagnosis and therapy. Students would greatly benefit from increased opportunities to practice manual skills in these summer jobs and externships as well. I strongly support the deletion of the "4th year student" requirement for hands on procedures under the supervision of a licensed veterinarian.

Having completed 4th year externships with students from other schools, it is painfully obvious that other students get far more hands-on experience than students in Virginia do.   It's ridiculous that when I was a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year veterinary student I was only allowed to do the same things that I did as a high school student working in kennels. Several of my classmates are applying for jobs out of state, and there are many out of state students applying for jobs in Virginia.  Our lack of experience puts us at a distinct disadvantage in the job market.   While we have plenty of book knowledge, our lack of technical skills is a huge problem for us when trying to enter the workforce. 

"For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them" -Aristotle

Veterinary students spend a large amount of time in classrooms listening to lectures, which is absolutely necessary to learn the vast amount of information they are required to. During their vacation time, many spend a lot of time working with veterinarians.  These experiences are invalualbe, and the doctors are quite often very willing to teach, but are hamstrung by how much they are allowed to let the students do.  Students are are well-prepared on the basics of many techniques, and the veterinarians have the best interest of the client, the animal, and the practice at heart.  Therefore, they should be able to allow the students perform certain safe hands-on tasks under careful guideace, to help train the new entrants to their profession.  This would allow students to graduate as much more compent, confident doctors with the ability to do more procedures under minimal or no guidance.

During the first three years of veterinary school, students acquire an enormous amount of knowledge. When the final, fourth-year rolls around, students are expected to apply this knowledge all at once, with little or no previous practice in doing simple clinical skills.  Allowing veterinary students to get more hands-on experience under the supervision of a licensed veterinarian is a great way to allow students to get more practice with critical clinical skills.  That way, when foruth year rolls around, studnets can focus on applying their medical and surgical skills without being hung up trying to elarn basic clinical skills.  More experience earlier will lead to more competent fourth-year students, and more competent graduating veterinarians.

 Hands on experience is the best way to learn. For example when learning a second language is most efficient to have total emersion into the culture. This principle forcing you to work on every facet of that language until you are fluent. It is the same with veterinary medicine. Hands on experience and putting into practice the concepts were are learning in the classroom solidify them and allow for perminant retention throughout our careers. It is also important to get this experience while under the supervision of a licensed professional (the practicing veterinarian and or professor). 

It is also essential to have these experieces earlier in your career to build confidence and understanding as well as taking responsibility for your actions what ever the outcome. The hands on experiences that I have had are the occations that I remember the longest. 

While the classroom and teaching laboratory components are essential to disseminating the mass quantity of information pertinent to veterinary science, these concepts are best solidified through hands-on experience.  It is a common practice to teach a topic through multiple modes, such as visual, auditory and kinesthetic avenues.  Teachers and professors frequently stress the necessity to utilize all three of these learning styles to reinforce knowledge for long term memory.  It is imperative that veterinary students be able to recall concepts learned in the classroom when assesing and handling a patient.

    The best way to prepare us for our careers in veterinary medicine is to gain more experience, supervised by licensed veterinarians, so that we may be able to gain more confidence and experience handling situations that may not be possible to present or simulate in a laboratory setting.  Additionally, in an outside hospital, students would benefit from more one-on-one teaching, rather than 125 students to 1-6 professors for a given lab period.  This motion would foster students' passion and desire to learn and excel in their field, and allow for younger veterinarians to be more skillful and proficient upon entering practices after graduation.  This in turn, may alleviate the pressure some students feel to take an internship position because they, "Don't feel ready," to practice immediately after veterinary school.  This extra step often causes students to acquire more debt on top of the several hundred thousand average, or at the least, accept pay that is below average for the typical starting veterinarian.  

The ability for a veterinary student to practice skills outside of school is essential to providing them with a well rounded education. Do to our recent advances in welfare laws regarding our animal usage, we are only allowed limited practice in skills that are necessary for making  us effective veterinarians (this inlcudes everything from placing IV and urinary catheters to performing spay and neuter procedures). Likewise, an academic setting is very strict - the ability to learn from private practitioners who are experienced in working with all kinds of patients and clients allows us to develop our critical thinking and problem solving skills. Fourth year is extremely busy, making this the only opportunity for us to gain these expereinces outside of school is hurtful to our education, our future employers, and our future clients and patients.

Allowing us to work with private practioners throughout our veterinary school years will help us become more experienced, better  educated, well rounded, and effective veterinarians. These skills will will benefit the VA veterinary community as a whole and help our profession maintain the trust and respect of our clientele. Changing this law will not only benefit veterinary students, but the entire state of VA.

As a Virginia native and one who plans to start a career here, I highly value the education in this state. By not allowing students and veterinarians to make the decisions on our abilities to be able to treat patients, you are severely negatively impacting our ability to become proficient in all skills necessary to be successful in this profession. Many students are forced to go elsewhere to gain hands-on experience and many times this results in the Commonwealth of Virginia losing very intelligent and talented veterinarians. Allowing a relationship to develop between students and mentoring veterinarians that allows the mentors to truly evaluate the students' skills, allows job opportunities to be extended, and more jobs to be accepted in this state. Lifting this regulation will have a domino effect and I truly believe will allow the Commonwealth to be nationally recognized for their veterinary community as one of talent, compatibility, and learning. 

Not allowing Virginia veterinary students the ability to practice skills outside the classroom prior to 4th year is a detriment to the students, as well as the public that not only plays a large role in funding the vet school, but relies on the expertise of future veterinarians to maintain food safety, public health, and the human-animal bond.

By changing the current law, veterinary students and the public will mutually benefit!

The practice of veterinary medicine is not only an intellectual endeavour, but a technical and physical one as well. The ability to effectively diagnose and treat patients is dependent on our ability to perform technical procedures as simple as listening to the heart all the way to performing surgery. Regardless of the action, the only way to become proficient is practice. Unfortunately, it is a fact that we do not receive enough practical experience within the veterinary curriculum and must therefore supplement it with other external opportunities. The removal of the 4th year restriction will allow students to begin reinforcing practical skills earlier in their academic career and ultimately result in more competent and confident graduates.

The practice of veterinary medicine is not only an intellectual endeavour, but a technical and physical one as well. The ability to effectively diagnose and treat patients is dependent on our ability to perform technical procedures as simple as listening to the heart all the way to performing surgery. Regardless of the action, the only way to become proficient is practice. Unfortunately, it is a fact that we do not receive enough practical experience within the veterinary curriculum and must therefore supplement it with other external opportunities. The removal of the 4th year restriction will allow students to begin reinforcing practical skills earlier in their academic career and ultimately result in more competent and confident graduates.

I have lived in Virginia my whole life and have been planning on going to vet school as long as I can remember. The biggest challenge I faced during high school and college was that I wasn't allowed to be hands on with patients or learn any technical skills. After the summer of my first year of vet school, I went and worked in a practice in Baltimore, MD. I learned so much during this 10 week program and my technical skills improved tremendously. Students don't have a lot of opportunities in vet school to learn these skills which is why it's so important they have the opportunity to do so outside of school and even before they enter vet school. I think it would be extremely beneficial if future students had the opportunity to be hands on with patients and give vaccines, place catheters, etc so they would be better prepared in vet school and they wouldn't have to leave the state to learn how to improve these skills. Many students experience a lot of anxiety and stress knowing they have only a handful of chances to learn how to properly place a catheter, for example, before having to perform this skill proficiently in their fourth year. If they could learn how to do this before school or during the summer, they could use the labs to better their skills with the guidance of clinicians rather than learning everything brand new and then trying to become proficient at it.

Students should have the opportunity to practice different clinical skills before fourth year as long as the supervising veterinarian approves. Students come from different experience backgrounds, so some are more capable of performing various clinical skills and should have the opportunity to practice them before entering clinics during fourth year.

As a first year student, I can already say that my hands-on experience from working under the supervision of veterinarians in Maryland has been invaluable to my educational experience. From my hands-on experience I make lasting connections between the information that I learn in the classroom and the actual clinical applications of that knowledge. It is difficult to get considerable one-on-one instruction from our professors and there is limited time to perfect clinical skills under the beneficial supervision of a knowledgeable DVM. Proficiency comes with practice and I think that many students do not feel that they have the opportunity within the curriculum to hone the technical skills that are essential to the profession. Allowing veterinary students to participate in experiential learning under the supervision of a veterinarian outside of the school before they get to 4th year will greatly improve the clinical confidence and practical knowledge of those students, making them more confident and effective veterinarians upon graduation. 

 Growing up I had the privilege of working with veterinarians around the world. Each country had different laws regarding hands on experiences and that allowed me to learn and educate myself through my mentors. Throughout those years I found out how extremely helpful hands on experience is, under the appropriate supervision. I developed my skills long before coming here in the US to study Veterinary Medicine.

As veterinary students, our only true hands on training comes when we are in our clincal year of schooling. Unlike medical doctors, our program is only 4 years, then we are on our own to practice veterinary medicine on real living animals! We do not have to complete a residency or internship in order to be a certified practicing veterinarian. The only other hands on experience we are able to get is through externships and working with mentors. If  our externship leaders and mentors trust us to do the tasks they have trained us for and hand over to us, why shouldn't we be able to gain a truly valuable and incredible hands experience from it? I am one who learns best by doing, and I know nothing sinks in for me until I've done it with my own hands and thought about it with my own mind. It is unfair to be held back from ones true learning potential until the year before they throw you out into the real world. That would be like your medical doctor only having 3 years of schooling and 1 year to actually practice the techniques they will need to do on you. It is unsafe for ones patients, and you would expect more training for your doctor, why wouldn't you want the same standard for your pet? 

Clinical hands on experience is extremely vital to the professional training or veterinarians during their primary education. This would of course be performed under direct supervision of an experienced veterinarian. This experience is critical to placing fine-tuned skills into the hands of students that will be required to practice the "art" of medicine, many immediately upon graduation from school. 

Because of the amount of material and skills we must learn in school, we are limited in the extent to which we can practice what we learn. If students seek extra opportunities to learn at an outside veterinary hospital and mentoring veterinarians are there to support them, then they should be allowed to practice what they have learned before 4th year. These additional experiences would not only benefit the student, but would also benefit the public as they would be provided with more practiced veterinarians straight out of school.

To whom it may be concerned,

The current restrictions on Virginia veterinary students and their ability to participate in practical training prior to their clinical year of the curriculum are too broad and limiting. For example, fundamental practical skills such as physical examination are currently taught in the first and second year of the curriculum at the Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine. These types of activities are low-risk and high value to students and are currently prohibited in multiple settings under 18VAC150-20-130.

I thank you for your consideration in this matter,

Sincerely,

Garrett Smith

Garrett Paul Smith

DVM/PhD Candidate

Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine

There is a substantial difference between being taught how to do something and being put in the position of doing it. This is particularly important when your career involves medicine of any sort, and especially when your patients range in size and physiology from chihuahuas to Holstein cows. There is no one blueprint for the entire animal kingdom, and so veterinary students have the challenging pleasure of learning how to work medicine based on landmarks. Many of these landmarks include structures that may be visible in some patients, but many of which are strictly palpable. That alone requires significant hands-on time- time that, due to the many, many demands placed on a veterinary student during the school year - is often sought extracurricularly. Not to mention, there are a vast number of other basic, clinical techniques that require practice to perfect. Virginia-Maryland is a fantastic location teeming with incredible opportunities, don't get me wrong, but if state regulation continues to disallow us experiential learning in the off-months, we're missing out on valuable knowledge - not just about what a normal patient feels like, but also fundamental skills like catheter placement, blood draws, nerve blocks, pregnancy checks, physical exams, lameness examns, and so on.
Further, nothing - absolutely nothing - is better for truer learning than hands-on experience. In-class work and book reading is necessary, but untl this knowledge is put to practice, it exists strictly in the abstract. It's no surprise that so many vet students have animals of their own - because we love them, but also because nothing teaches you how to listen to a heart or complete a physical exam or pill a dog better than doing those things on your own (perhaps exasperated) animals! Scheduled lab times and extracurricular wetlabs certainly help transform this abstract knowledge to practical knowledge - but the amount of time spent in a lab with our hands on an animal is far, far less than the amount of time spent in a classroom. The opportunity to make-up some of this difference in winter break and summer work and/or learning experiences would lend to a greater understanding of our patients, more confident students (and thus, more confident veterinarians), and a better foundation for future learning.
Virginia-Maryland promises Day 1 veterinarians by virtue of the required graduation competencies as outlined by the AAVMC and AAVM, but we could be even better. Allow experiential work and you allow us to accelerate our on-the-job training; allow us to accelerate our on-the-job training and you've got more competent veterinarians in your workforce faster. Competency lends itself to a healthier food supply, a bolstered public health system, and increased production - and all of these contribute to the health and well-being of Virginia, its economy, and - most importantly - its residents.

I wish i had more time to make a more effective and more thought out comment against this rule making. I would and i hope the people making this rule are doing fit for the sole reason to better all our lives...including the pets and animals we have. If this is the case it is a relatively easy concept to grasp that we would like to have the best of the best working and caring for our pets just as we would for us. And to be quick and straight to the point i will leave you with this thought.

Would you want a heart surgeon to be performing a life threatining surgery on you for his/her very first time?

If you agree with this and don't mind having an unskilled inexperienced doctor practicing on you, then passing this rule is the right legislation for you.

I am a practicing veterinarian of over 23 years and a practice owner of over 15 years.  I have seen firsthand the level of clinical competance of the newer graduates, and feel that any and all hands-on experience they can obtain will only make them better veterinarians, clinically more competant, and also command a higher salary out of school.  As a practice owner looking at potential new hires, it is very difficult to hire a new graduate with little to no clinical experience....not only is it very time consuming to teach new graduate employees,  but it can be costly as well, from a monetary standpoint as well as the confidence levels of pet owners who have come to expect a certain level of care from your hospital.  The amount of knowledge needed to be a competant veterinarian is growing every day, and it is obvious that something needs to give from a time perspective in the veterinary curriculum (maybe the students really need to consider "tracking" large animal, small animal, etc), but it should not be removing the all important hands-on learning....this IS veterinary medicine, and if the students are not interested in the hands on aspects, it might be time to consider another career !!!

In regards to the limitations requiring a student to be in their fourth year before they can participate in hands-on experiences, I believe that this part of the legislation needs to be eliminated. Regulations have been changed within the schools that severely limit our ability to practice on live patients - the very thing that we will be practicing on when we get out into the field. I believe that it should be left to the discretion of the practitioner under which the student is working to decide what the student is and is not allowed to do. The more experience that students can receive will benefit them in their career. In addition, I believe that it would be perfectly safe for students earlier in the curriculum to perform hands-on procedures because they are under the direct supervision of a veterinary who can step in if necessary.

Most of us learn from repetition and 4th year doesn't allow enough time to be able to repeat all we have to be able to do once we start practicing!

Early hands on experience is tremendously important for veterinary students.  VMRCVM packs in as much as we can during the school year - but the law should not limit what the students can acheive while mentored during holidays and summer breaks.  

I support this petition as a practical and valuable way for veterinary students to gain additional expertise, with the potential to improve the quality of veterinary care in Virginia.

The more practical experience veterinary students acquire the better prepared they when they enter the profession. The proposal would provide  additional experience which will facilitate learning in the class room and during their clinical training.  

A single year (4th year) isn't such a short time to expect veterinary students to obtain adequate practical experience.  Increasing the opportunity for veterinary students to gain practical experience throughout the veterinary curriculum will enhance the marketability of students and help students obtain quality jobs after graduation.  Good for Cara Lubarsky for stepping forward and brining this important topic to the state and professions attention! 

I support this petition as a practical and valuable way for veterinary students to gain additional expertise.  Many students work during the first 3 years of veterinary school at private practices, externships etc and there is a wealth of practical experience to be gained under the supervision of a veterinary in these experiences.  This has the potential to improve the quality of veterinary care in Virginia.

Often people outside our profession  realize that veterinary students have rigorous training all four years of their veterinary education. Although many are likely aware that the final (fourth) year is predominantly clinical, the students receive some clinical/surgical training prior to senior year as well--the clinical training doesn't only begin the day veterinary students start their final year. This petition would allow veterinary students to learn and develop skills out in practices throughout the state during all four years (typically on holiday & summer breaks) to coincide with the intense training they receive while enrolled at a veterinary college.

Furthermore, many of the veterinary students have Virginia licensed veterinarian mentors outside the veterinary college that are in clinical practice in small and/or equine/farm animal settings. These veterinarians often invite students to visit the practices but these same veterinarians are restricted from providing any clinical training until the students are in the fourth year. This regulation severely limits some of the benefits these licensed veterinarian mentors can provide veterinary students, and this petition would definitely help address this limitation.

Experiential learning is an essential component of training a professional. Furthermore, this workplace-based training should occur over the entire duration of their educational experience.  Currently, veterinarian students training in the state of Virginia are only able to obtain valuable, hands-on experiences in a practice setting when they are in their final year.  However, they are receiving advanced training in these techniques from their first year.  An emendment to the current regulation would allow our students to further practice these skills in earlier years, while developing mentoring relationships with veterinary practioners in the state.  Additionally, this experience would allow our students to be an active part of a working team, refining their diagnostic and technical skills.

As Associate Dean for Professional (DVM) Programs, I fully support this proposed change.  I believe it would greatly enhance our students training during their DVM degree.

I am a faculty member at the Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine and also at the Virginia Tech/Carilion School of Medicine.  I support the proposal to allow DVM candidates to experience hands-on practical work as early as possible in their career.  MD students at the VTCSOM begin rotations in clinics after only two years in didactic classroom instruction, and there is every reason to allow DVM students to do the same.  Students in both schools study the same subjects and utilize the same techniques, therapies, and instrumentation.  The old saying "There is only one medicine" applies; and students who are (as ours are) throughly grounded in the basics can learn a great deal by seeing practice and working with a veterinarian treating actual patients.   This proposal has the support of our Academic Affairs Office, and with good reason: it will get our students to the level of competency they must attain to succeed faster and more effectively than the current system of mandating they be in their final year.

By expanding student access to veterinary practice-based training we can build upon this already extremely valuable relationship and increase the depth and breadth of the students workplace experiences. This has the potential to improve the students readiness for practice upon graduation and increase their marketability. I strongly support this proposal. 

I believe that it should be left to the discretion of the practitioner under which the student is working and the client owner of the animal to be treated to decide what the student is and is not allowed to do. I think more experience under the supervision of a veterinarian will produce a more competent new graduate veterinarian which will benefit both the veterinarian and the clients. Students would perform tasks under the direct supervision of a veterinary who can step in if necessary making it an effective and safe learning environment for the student and patient.

Didactic training can only teach students so much; practical experience is the most helpful and the best method to have retention of knowledge and skills. Veterinary training can only allow so much hands-on expereince with patients due to IACUC regulations and limited funds. Allowing students to further develop a mentor-mentee relationship will provide lasting professional relationships which are very important in this field.

This proposed amendment would allow years 1-3 to gain adequate skills and experience pertaining to field work expediting that process which is currently designated to only 4 year students. This would allow fourth year students to be more prepared as well as recent alumni who are thrust into the vortex of inadequate experience. This in general advances the field of veterinary medicine as it's underlying skill set.

All VMRCVM students have accepted the Veterinary Oath and have professed their committment to the profession.  Practical training is a vital component to our education.  By introducing practical training earlier in the DVM curriculum, we may potentially reduce the number of laboratory animals that are required for teaching purposes.  As our student population grows, it is undeniably important to support efforts to reduce the numbers of lab animals that are needed for instruction.  I firmly believe that this petition will promote education opportunities and allow the reduction in number of lab animals that are required for teaching purposes.  

This change is imperative in assisting our students in becoming more confident and more proficient veterinary practitioners upon graduation.

There is nothing more important than hands on experience.  I am a fairly recent graduate (2009) and I feel like my clinical experience in the teaching hospital was great, but there were definitely some "real world" gaps that I faced when I began practicing.  I was extremely lucky to have a wonderful boss who was (and still is) willing to support and mentor me through some of the more challenging cases.  The sad thing is that some of areas where I felt the most unsure the first few weeks were very simple topics that I see frequently (i.e. dental cleaning and extractions, lump removals, ear hematoma repairs, etc).  This is because most of the cases we saw at the teaching hospital are more advanced referral cases.  Yes, we had community practice, but that was only 3 weeks.  I was also lucky enough to spend 3 weeks at a spay/neuter clinic, and 2 different rotations in private practices all of which were invaluable to my preparation for going into practice!  The opportunity for students to have more hands on clinical experience seems like a wonderful idea. 

I was fortunate to continue to work while a student at VMRCVM and I continued to gain valuable experience in the advice and guidance of the Veterinarians that I worked with during that time. I would have been even more fortunate had they been able to not only show me what I should be able to do upon graduation but also to allow me the experience of doing those things myself. It is unsettling that I will graduate with as little as 10 surgeries completed on my own by the time I graduate, and this number could have been greater had I had the opportunty to have more guided experiences earlier in my education. I have heard from many professors and practioners that it takes as many as 20 surgeries to become competent in each procedure and I will graduate with only half that number in total surgeries performed of all applicable procedures.

Additional considerations can also be true for less invasive procedures such as urinary catheter placements, IV catheter placements, peripheral limb bandages and many other every day procedures that I will be performing on my own in less than 3 months time. I have done very few of these in either laboratory settings or in my senior year rotations and have not developed true competency in procedures that I will need to do. If I had been allowed to gain practical experience in the hospital that I worked for, after I had completed each type of task or procedure in the school curriculum, I would have immeasurably greater experience, confidence and competence in these and other areas that could have made me a better day one practitioner.

Some of my classmates have greater numbers of practical experiences because they had veterinary technician's licencing that allowed them to practice things that I could not. I do not argue this against them, however, even in technical schools, there are better allowances for the practical application of their education than we are allowed as future doctors. As a practicing clinician in the near future, I will be the one training, directing and guiding technicians, both new and old, in the application of procedural care and technical skills. It does not seem appropriate to me that I may be asked to do this when they may actually have more practical skills than I was afforded to complete. I understand that the schools cannot possbily be expected to provide me with the time and opportunity to improve my skills, but I do expect that opportunities should not be ignored. If a licence holding, private practitioner is willing and able to take some of that burden from the schools, then he or she should be encouraged to do so. Please consider the benefits of allowing students better access to gain practical skills that cannot be fully developed in just the final year of veterinary training.

As a practicing veterinarian and an alumnus of VMRCVM I am fully in support of this petition.  Allowing more hands-on experience throughout the veterinary cirriculum will produce better, more competent veterinary graduates.